hadley, this paul ryan, he went out and met with reporters. republicans are in the retreat down in williamsburg, virginia. maybe they'll use a short term increase in the debt ceiling maybe three months or six months. is that the point? how does that inform you? does that get to the heart of the matter? >> it certainly doesn't get to the heart of the matter. if we remember back in 2006 then senate obama said raising the debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. since he has been in office we have raised it six times. i believe we'll do it again. but it's spending cuts, we have to have responsible reductions in spending as soon as possible. >> you know, karen, welcome back. according to the cbo today the debt level went from -- i'm going to use round numbers, a little under $15 trillion to a little over $16 trillion. that's 2012 over 2011. this will make the fourth straight trillion dollar budget deficit and the largest increase in debt. it's not being talked about right now. but it is all on president obama's watch at some point he's going to